This non-detectable recon ships on dscan is nothing more than catering to the pvp player and is pure crap and should not be allowed. This change will make WH mining impossible and expensive.

Is not about adapting because there is nothing to adapt to, Im not trying to run away from this people I need to know exact intel in order to decided if i can engage them or not.

What i do in this scenarios
-They are docked- I move on
-They are cloaked- I know they have at least a decloaking delay
-They are recons - ? there is nothing i can do

I can look at each people that is in local and check their killboards but do i really want to waist all this time looking at people killboards at EVERY SYSTEM? not really it will make engagement happens much more slowly or not happen at all?


Sure i can also dock up at everything station and take note of who is dock and not, but is not realistic for a ls pvp environment where is suppose to be fast pace.

... or bring more people.

At least it should be consider to have a D-scan immunity up to a certain distance for example 3 AU or at the maximum 1AU that will force scouts to actually get closer to gather intel, but complete D-scan immunity is just crazy

I don't usually do this but
https://zkillboard.com/character/367797693/solo/
...

lol you even said it "As a true solo player" and they you said, "I'm not much of a solo PvP'er "

get rekt, you are proposing unrealistic tactics for people that go to LS to look for fair fights and fast pace pvp that is one reason why most people fly frigates, not because is cheap but challenging

Targeting an enemy player is 99% of combat in this game. ECM and to an extent, dampeners are not healthy at all. You have the opportunity to change that. The end result should not be where the affected ship is unable to target anything when the EW is applied.

ECM is a terrible mechanic for a couple reasons:

• Obviously not being able to lock a target means it functions as a 'Get out of jail free' card for the enemy of the person who is jammed resulting in less combat.
• Out of all the EW drones being built, almost all are ECM drones. This is not because the other ones are worthless. It is just because ECM is so powerful. I mean after all; why damp/paint/web/tracking disrupt when you can make the target unable to lock anything?
• Because ECM is so over the top powerful when it works, the fast dirty way of balancing it has been to reduce the chance it will work resulting in nothing happening when the module is activated. This is a terrible light switch mechanic. All or nothing.
• There is no counter play for those who are jammed. For 20 seconds plus the amount of time it takes to relock the targets - there is nothing you can do. Sure some will go on about using drones, smartbombs and F.O.F. missiles, but no one is ever able to provide results where these things caused them to win the fight. The ship ECMing the target is almost always aligned so even if they put drones on the them, they will just warp to a ping (which is even easier now with on grid bookmarks visible) and they will be rejammed as soon as it lands. Smartbombs only work if the enemy ships are in range and again, decides to stick around long enough to die to them. Even if you killed the ECM drones with the smartbombs, chances are that 20+ seconds was enough to tip the scale in the fight anyways. Obviously F.O.F. missiles are a joke, especially considering if the person being jammed is not in a missile boat, they don't get to use them.

ECM is just a bad game mechanic. Notice how almost all of the arguments against combat recons not being on directional scanner uses the Rook in the example. It's not necessarily the Rook they fear, it is ECM.

ECM does not need to be nerfed. It needs to be replaced!

We have tracking disruption, a missile disruption EW would be welcomed. Everyone is so sick of Drones Online, where is the drone disruption? Would be nice to target that Ishtar/Dominix, turn on my Balmer series drone disruption and those sentries become less effective at those extreme ranges. Even if you guys are not ready to release new EW, at least replace ECM with a couple existing EW in the game until then. Target painting makes sense.

With ECM out of the picture, you can get rid of ECCM resulting in far less off grid boosting ships as well. (sorry slippery Petes. you were a cowards ship anyways)

There is no point in leaving in such a terrible game mechanic when you guys can easily pull it right now and replace it with existing EW that actually has counter play.

I admit I did not read all 85 pages in the thread, and it may have already been covered, but it would be nice to know what motivates this. Why do you think recons need to have scan immunity? What issue is this addressing?

Perhaps explaining the reasons behind the change would help us understand (digest) it better.

Broken? Hasn't even released on SiSi yet. Broken means it doesnt work. Are you saying that CCP will not be able to make Combat Recons immune to dscan?

From what i see, EvE playerbase (including myself) can be a big disappointment to the devs sometimes.
I mean, what are recons supposed to be? Subspecialty ships, highly specific ewar. They are supposed to be flown and warped APART from main fleets, they aren't supposed to take primary dps, therefore they aren't expected to be tanky or dps ships.
Nevertheless the average EvE (me too) player wants t2 resists and broad damage type in ze missiles.
Dudes they're not supposed to be fleet warped with main dps. They should land at range. Or, they should immediately try to pull range.
Rise I'm sorry for my incompetence.

Are the design team actually going to roll this out on SiSi first before release, get the test results so you can actually see how broken it is before you release it to TQ? or are you just going to take a blind leap of faith and then shrug when everything goes wrong?

I hope to heavens that you choose the better option.

Good update, except for the kinetic damage bonus.

The way to deal with the FW issue is just simply not allow recons into sites.

I am happy you're standing your ground though and not giving in to FW complaints.

Where have I said I fear it? Maybe you can point me to that comment. I said it solves nothing and does nothing but allow you to get cheap ganks on bears. I would rather have meaningful small gang combat than managing to get a drop on a 30 day old character because he has no idea what local is. D-Scan removal allows me to strategically make perches and engage fights that I have a rough idea at winning rather than no local which would require 99% of eve both for wars, lowsec, and nullsec to get more alts in cloakies to sit on gates.

EDIT:

Not to mention me spending extra time in each system to determine if anyone is there when looking for kills in an area of space with only a few major hotspots every 10 jumps or so. I would rather jump in and know, hey there isn't anyone here, lets not launch probes.

I personally think i can use the dscan immunity to get cheap gankg more often that with a cloak. Also, its not very common to arrive on a gate and the person inside not know you are there. With a hostile in system its not uncommon to spam scan.

What i am curious about, is why the change at all. There has been no clarification of its intended purpose. Please tell me its not just to keep a few staff members busy since they dont have any better changes to work towards.

We know there are going to be some problems but we don't really care. We are going to implement it anyway, because....

I want to.

Sorry to be blunt but it sounds like somebody in a job role that doesn't have the experience to be there. ( note: it's not just about the game )
According to the way this has been talked about from CCP then this is being rushed. Surely by now you have seen the effects of what happens when game developers rush things? You guys have no need to rush it, we have enough to play with for a few months.

There are a lot of arguments both ways, you would think at the very least, this would make the people taking your money to say, lets not rush it we should look into it more, we should test it ourselves .
Or at least come to the community and say we have an idea, it's game changing and we don't really know what will happen, we are going to implement it on the main server for a month and use that as feedback. If A happens then it stays, if B happens then we will review it.

But instead we have, what seems like a personal agenda to get something into the game, rather than something that is better for the game in general.

And before you get all excited this actually goes both ways. I think these changes will be bad but I actually have no idea. Even if it turns out to be the best EVE change ever I would still expect it to go through more testing than asking a forum full of over opinionated nerds what they think.

Rushed ideas are not resolved ideas. no matter how good they may seem.